Challenging the Imposter Within You with Christine Alvarez and Eileen Springer
In this episode of Good Enough For Now, Christine Alvarez and Eileen Springer share the transitions that happen in our career that stem out of imposter syndrome. There are so many instances where we see a fork in the road ahead in our careers and we want to be the one to decide which way to go. It requires some deep work and self-reflection to decide if we should go left or right.
This episode is a bit different because I had the pleasure of sitting down with Christine and Eileen in person, a first for this podcast. Watch the video for the episode below.
They share why imposter syndrome is not your fault, why remote work might not be best for your career, how to step back into the workforce if you’ve been away, and why self-awareness is the most powerful tool in your growth.
Listen in (or watch!) to hear more.
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what we cover in this episode:
What is imposter syndrome (really) and how it can impact you professionally.
How to overcome imposter syndrome by recognizing and naming it, understanding the circumstances that trigger it, and challenging negative self-talk.
Why working with a coach is an effective way to grow in your career and why your partner, friend, or colleague might not be the best person to get advice from.
Why imposter syndrome, characterized by feelings of intellectual phoniness and self-sabotage, is more common among women, especially in situations where they are the minority.
Christine and Eileen discuss the emotional filing cabinet concept, where our perception of ourselves, how we present ourselves, and how the world reflects back on us play a role in imposter syndrome.
They also touch on workplace trends, the challenges and benefits of remote work, the importance of visibility and influence, and the value of self-reflection and nurturing your network.
Resources
“Why Everyone Feels Like They’re Faking It” by Leslie Jamison
Connect with Eileen on LinkedIn
Connect with Christine on LinkedIn
What Good Enough For Now Means To Christine
It's a pause on judgment. The infamous old saying, good enough for government work, it's like will what you’re doing get the job done? Because I don't think there is such a thing as perfectionism. To me, that’s a myth. And so good enough means it will last, it will build, you can do it. But who's to say what perfection is because I don't believe in it. So, only you can judge what is good enough for you or for the situation at hand.
WHAT GOOD ENOUGH FOR NOW MEANS TO EILEEN
It means having a willingness to feel satisfied. To celebrate the small successes, be willing to recognize them, and reflect on them, and give yourself a pat on the back. And step back and embrace feeling satisfied for the moment.
ABOUT Christine Alvarez
An Executive and Leadership Coach, Christine Alvarez brings over 25+ years of Corporate Marketing experience from a variety of industries including Publishing, Major Entertainment Companies and Advertising.
Christine works with executives and mid-level professionals to navigate career choices and challenges. She coaches women executives at Chief, and private clients in the media and tech industries. She is also a BetterUp Fellow Coach, and is a preferred coach for Columbia’s Teachers College assisting alumni in developing their Careers and Co-founder of Your Next Next™, a team of executive coaches working with companies and professionals who are navigating the new world of work.
ABOUT EILEEN SPRINGER
Eileen is the founder of Central Park Executive Coaching and the co-founder of Your Next Next. She coaches C-suite executives, mid-career professionals and early-in-career talent in corporations and nonprofits. Eileen is a Core Guide at Chief, a women's peer networking organization supporting development of C-suite executives and has recently launched women’s coaching circles.
Eileen brings over 30 years of experience leading HR and Talent Management teams in large global companies. She holds certifications in Executive Coaching from Columbia University and the International Coaching Federation and is certified in a multitude of talent assessments.
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Stephanie Kruse 0:05
Welcome to Good Enough For Now, a podcast aimed at dismantling perfectionism one conversation at a time. I'm Stephanie Kruse and along with my guests on the show, we share stories of false starts unexpected you turns in moments of reinvention that happen as we move through life. Thanks for joining me. My hope is that our conversations will help you stay grounded, feel a little less alone and a little bit more together.
Stephanie Kruse 0:36
Everybody ever been in a situation that is new to you, and you felt like everyone was going to figure out that you weren't supposed to be there or you weren't qualified for what you had been asked to do? The faking it till you make it piece just wasn't working me to. Today I'm talking with Christine Alvarez and Eileen Springer, about the phenomenon of feeling like an imposter. They both are executive coaches and researchers around human resources and development in the workplace. And they bring some great insights into this topic. I'm gonna tell you a little bit about them.
Stephanie Kruse 1:13
Christine Alvarez and Eileen Springer are cofounders of your next next, a coaching practice. Christine is an executive leadership coach with a passion to help people move forward in their career. She brings over 25 years of corporate marketing experience from a variety of industries, including publishing major entertainment companies, and advertising. Eileen is also founded Central Park executive coaching. She coaches C suite executives, mid career professionals and early in career talent in corporations and nonprofits. Eileen brings over 30 years of experience leading HR and talent management teams, and large global companies. They both should never have impostor syndrome with all of their qualifications. Nonetheless, you're in for a great conversation. Enjoy.
Stephanie Kruse 2:05
Eileen, and Christine, thank you so much for joining me today.
Christine Alvarez 2:10
You're welcome.
Eileen Springer 2:11
Happy to be here.
Stephanie Kruse 2:12
Yeah, we're gonna have a great time. So for those of you listening, go to the YouTube channel, because we will have a video of us doing this in person, which is the first time I've done this. And so thank you both for being guinea pigs with me on this adventure with in person podcasting. So I want to talk to you guys, bring everybody up to speed on where you are in your life now and how you came to this work of executive coaching.
Christine Alvarez 2:42
Okay. I started out in advertising, and eventually morphed from advertising to marketing, and spent a lot of time in motion pictures, publishing, television, television was the most recent with 21 years. And then from there, as one gets older, and the workforce, you realize that things are changing, you change the workforce changes. And what was happening in the marketing world was that there was a huge transition to digital. During this time, I had several teams that reported to me, and I really liked managing the teams dealing with their promotions, their, you know, expectations, development, things like that. And so when the marketing started to change, and the industry was changing to a lot of mergers, I realized I need to start to think about stuff differently. And so I started to experiment, and I took a course at the Center for personal leadership at Columbia and loved it. Then I went on I thought, maybe I'll get some life coaching certification. So I went I got life coaching certification, and really liked that but didn't really do much with it for a while then when the industry was changing. I'm thinking, Okay, it's time to formalize this and really think about a pivot a different career outside of my, you know, 25 plus years of marketing. So I started looking at programs and I went back to school, and I found Columbia had a coaching certification program. So I enrolled in that because I wanted a very formal education easy because education for me is a big value point of mine. So I went back to school at Columbia. That's where I met Eileen. And that was about four and a half years ago and really transitioned into executive and leadership coaching.
Stephanie Kruse 4:38
Fantastic. And how different is your, your chapter here? Tell us Eileen.
Eileen Springer 4:43
My chapters different in terms of my career was built in human resources. So I spent my entire career in human resources as both an HR business partner and for about 20 years specializing in talent so I was working for large fortune 100 companies, leading large talent organizations focused on talent acquisition, talent management, and learning and development. And was very fortunate that I picked a career that I enjoyed my entire career and loves leading people and love the the academic side of human resources, which was really developing as a profession over the 30 plus years that I was in industry. And I spent about 10 years in financial services, about 15 years and technology, and toward the end of my traditional career in hospitality. And as I was getting older, and thinking about the components of my job that I enjoyed the most, I always felt an affinity toward the executive coaches that I was partnering with, and bringing into organizations to work with our executives. And as I got into my 50s, I decided that I really needed to get serious about thinking about what my next phase of work would be. And I was recommended to the program at Columbia, which is a year long program to get a certification and executive coaching. And as hokey as it sounds, from the first day that I was there, I felt like I had discovered what I was truly meant to do. Well, that's amaze. And as part of my research at Columbia for the program, I decided to do my research on the preferences of millennials in coaching, and held a focus group as part of that primary research. And after that, had my first clients and launched my business. So some of my individual coaching was part of my practice of Central Park executive coaching. And then Christine and I started partnering up on programs and some academic research, which is under your next next,
Stephanie Kruse 7:05
oh, my gosh, what I really like about both of your stories is, of course, you're both completely expertise, you know, you had the expertise in your chosen career fields before, but you anticipated that you were going to need to figure out what came next. Pardon the pun of the your neck. Next but but it's so apropos because, you know, I've talked to guests pretty often about these moments where they uncover Oh, hey, maybe I need to go to a next place in my job or in my life. And a lot of times that comes down to making the decision before someone can make it for you.
Eileen Springer 7:48
Exactly.
Stephanie Kruse 7:50
And executive coaching. You know, there's there's a lot of people, you can find tons of listings on LinkedIn and on the web and in, you know, women collective women's professional groups about executive coaching. What do you think really makes a difference for someone who's thinking about their next chapter to use an executive coach?
Christine Alvarez 8:12
I think that an executive coach can help question you in terms of values, interests. One of the things that for some people a transition is easy. Eileen gave a great example of when she got to Columbia, she knew this was what she meant to be. When I had the first day at Columbia, I called my husband and I said, I think I'm, I think I'm in over my head. So there was this, like, whole deal of like, Oh, my God, what am I doing here? And so it was an experimentation. And a good executive coach will help you explore an experiment. But the piece about experimenting is that if I had listened to myself at that moment, thinking, a little bit of impostor syndrome, and like, oh, my gosh, this is this is all new territory for me. You know, after being in marketing for many, many years. I stuck with it. By the end of the week, everything changed for me. And it's like, I got it. I got it. And I like it. So having the executive coach is like a route partnering with a really strong thought partner, who will help you explore and challenge you.
Eileen Springer 9:22
Yes, I think not going it alone can be very powerful. Someone to ask those powerful questions and to help you stay grounded in reality. One of the things i i divulge to prospective clients before I start working with them is that every every coach is different. Every coach has a different approach. My approach happens to be a very practical one. If I see someone trying to pursue something that doesn't seem to be realistic, I have no problem in calling it out. And If someone shares with me their values, and then they go down a road that doesn't align with their values, I'll point that out as well. So having that thought partner can save you time in the end. And, and in some ways can make the whole process less daunting and less lonely.
Stephanie Kruse 10:18
Yeah, and it sounds like to you're not only talking about being a thought partner, but you're talking about accountability and objectivity, right? So so many of us can counsel with friends or a partner or maybe a, you know, a fellow colleague at work or in a professional setting about what we want for ourselves or what we're kind of considering trying. And those ideas can be out there for many, many years with no action, and people can cheerlead you. And maybe they honestly do feel excited about the ideas you're sharing, but they probably don't have the objectivity that a coach can provide. That's seen business that seen a lot of different peoples and types of careers, to say, Well, okay, is that really aligned with your values? You know, how are you actually going to make this happen? What's your plan? And we all need a little bit of that, you know, groundedness, I think, as you put it so nicely to help us move forward. I want to pivot though and talk you started to talk a little bit about imposter syndrome. Want to talk a little bit about that? Because you guys both have started doing specific workshop and programming around imposter syndrome. Tell me what impostor syndrome is?
Christine Alvarez 11:38
Well, imposter syndrome, the way we describe it. And by the way, there was no shortage of research that's out there. And back in February of 2023, The New Yorker did a really good long article on impostor syndrome. But the takeaway is, in, you know, in a soundbite, it's that feeling of intellectual phoniness, that you are going to be found out that people you are presented as knowing something but you yourself, don't think you know, enough. That's kind of where it breaks down. But impostor syndrome is very interwoven with negative self talk, and self sabotage. So it's really pieces to break it apart. So in the work that Eileen and I have done, we spent a lot of time having discussions and how do we, how do we position it? How do we explain it to people, because everybody will experience it differently? And then coming together with some actions to say, Okay, what do you do when you have
Stephanie Kruse 12:37
Mm hmm. And how do people experience at what what do they describe to you, when they're going through that feeling?
Eileen Springer 12:47
Yes, oftentimes, this this comes up, particularly more so with women, because they often find themselves as the only in the room. And that starts to make them feel uncomfortable. And question, a lot of things that shakes their confidence. So they may have an experience that shakes their confidence, even if it's not justified. They, they may have a meeting or a presentation where people start to talk over them, they may have other people start to question their data, or their competence. They may have recently been promoted into a role, where after they've been promoted and earned it, they start to question if they really deserve to be there. And everyone experiences it a bit differently. But it can it can turn them into a spiral.
Stephanie Kruse 13:46
Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking about, you know, I think about when I managed teams, and when you get to performance review time, and those comments around gravitas, and command skills. And you know, the confidence descriptors would sometimes be harder for myself and my colleagues to show up, you know, especially if we are like you said, one of the only or the few women and it does make you feel or you could feel very defeated, even though you're doing all the right things you're performing at a high level. And so when you guys do your workshop, you frame this this issue, what are the action steps or how do people start to think about getting them out of that spiral?
Christine Alvarez 14:36
Yeah, one of the first pieces is we ask people to identify it in the moment, the infamous phrase name attainment, you have to know you're experiencing it. And the big piece there is knowing is this self sabotage is negative self talk is truly imposter syndrome. So the first piece is okay, this is what I'm feeling. Then the next piece is to really ask yourself in what circumstances does this show up? Is this showing up just when I'm the only non finance person in a finance meeting? If I'm only the only person in the room who is a woman, a woman of color, or, you know, whatever, so you have to kind of understand what circumstances you start to feel it, you got to first recognize it, then the circumstances? And then what is it about the circumstances? Is it? Is it a piece that is more personal? Or is it a piece that may be based on knowledge? And so you have to kind of understand that. So that's the first piece.
Stephanie Kruse 15:42
And then what happens? So you so you become aware, aha, I'm doing that thing again. And it's, it happens in these particular circumstances. So is it I talked myself out of it or our ways? You know, I don't want to imagine I shouldn't shame myself for these feelings. These feelings may be normal, in certain circumstances. How do then you, you help people deal with it?
Eileen Springer 16:09
Yeah, going about getting the facts. And the data can be really important. And that can validate whether or not what you're experiencing is actually true. Having people that you can trust that you can go to for feedback to validate is what I'm feeling or experiencing what you saw. And so, so collecting more information to try to calibrate what are your feelings? And what is actually so
Stephanie Kruse 16:40
I think you guys should counsel people with teenage daughters for that. I could definitely use that help. So it's interesting, you brought up the New Yorker article, because I'm guessing you're talking about Leslie Jamison's article and I doing the background for talking with both of you I had I had read it, but I read it again. And I loved how she puts you know that that imposter syndrome, or rather phenomenon, I guess, is really originally how it was coined. syndrome sounds very scary, effectively functions as an emotional filing cabinet, organizing a variety of fraught feelings that we can experience as we try to reconcile three aspects of our personhood, how we experience ourselves, how we present ourselves to the world, and how the world reflects that self back to us. It's like an identity crisis is what it sort of feels like those words are describing. Once your clients start working on getting themselves sort of in and out of that. How do they see the systems you know, of work? Or, you know, capitalism writ large? Do they see it more as sort of their? It's not so much about them? Are they able to separate what where they're at and the systems that they operate in from how they feel for some?
Christine Alvarez 18:05
For some they can, sir, you know, part of it is how emotionally intelligent are you about yourself? And how self aware? And how much do you believe and how much do you know is facts. So there's that piece of it. The other piece is that there are true work situations that can be toxic, that can cause impostor syndrome, if it's a environmental piece. It's you that may not need fixing, and maybe the system, but imposter syndrome and keeping yourself in check. It's, it's not like a pill that you take, and it goes away, never have to worry about it again and you move on. There may be other circumstances that will pop up. The trick is to understand that you know what the experience is, you might have a more propensity than others to it. And just checking in when you need to, whether it's a coach or a mentor, or a friend,
Eileen Springer 19:03
too, and to build on what what Chris just said about being self aware. I have this this saying and coaching that you have to make work work for you. And when you start to since it isn't working for you, that's when you start considering making some sort of change. But the reality is to to really tackle impostor syndrome, you do have to be self reflected, as Chris said, and there are some people that naturally have lower self esteem than others, and understanding yourself and what your needs are. And to see whether or not the culture or your particular work environment is working for you is very important because there are going to be bullies in the workplace, even though we know what's wrong, and there's a lot of talk about it. They still exist. Both men and women can be bullies And who do bullies pick on the people with the lowest self esteem? So for for those that are struggling with self esteem, if they find themselves in that environment, it can be very devastating.
Stephanie Kruse 20:13
Yeah. Oh, I can imagine. And I love how you put, you know, you make work work for you, because that really gives agency. Right? It's empowering to hear that and to feel that that is a choice that they can make, and they're not stuck, which is the most important piece of it. Right? You know, we've heard a lot about, you know, quiet quitting to great resignation to women saying I've had enough, you know, the, the workplace has changed and yet not changed. At the same time, there's this tension, always, I think that occurs. But it seems like now it's getting a lot of airtime given what we've all been through, having been home at work, and now trying to figure out flexibility. And what that looks like. And to your point, I think you guys talked about millennials, you know, this is a very large demographic that is reaching their prime earning years. And so when you think about I want to pivot a little bit from imposter syndrome, but to both of your knowledge around workplace trends, and what you're seeing, when you think about people that are in mid career, or working to get to the next level, dealing with flexibility issues, or you know, hybrid working, or aging, what are you seeing, what are you hearing from some of your clients that's either making you feel optimistic about what can happen, or give you a little bit of trepidation? Tell us both sides?
Christine Alvarez 21:45
Well, I think if you take a 35,000 foot view of the work environment, you know, grandparents, my grandparents, you know, it's like they just worked, and you work because you needed money. And, you know, it was like your work Sunday, you just did it right, it was very industrial machine. And as work started to change, and we went from industrial to informational, there was a different kind of connection with that it's less physical, more mental. And so people started opening up, and it kind of opened a few doors for people to be a little more self reflective. What we're seeing now, after its pandemic, the pandemic was a game changer in so many ways. Because back in, maybe even 2013 2014, the people who work from home that sounded like a luxury to those of us who came to the office every day. And then you fast forward to a pandemic, where this is what happens. What was great about the pandemic is it put people in touch with their lives again, in a way that hadn't been, you know, happening before. And the boundaries weren't there anymore. It wasn't my office, my home, it was my office, my home in one space. So what it did is it opened up a lot of values for people and they came to realize a lot of non negotiables are things that became more important than just a compensation of a salary or the or the high title.
Eileen Springer 23:17
And now we're where we are now, and I'm getting ready to say something unpopular, go for it. But for people that are mid career that are ambitious, and really interested in advancing within their organization, remote work can start to work against you. Because at the end of the day, it's still pretty competitive. And it can still very much be a situation of out of sight out of mind. It doesn't mean that working hybrid or working remote can't lead to circumstances for advancement. But it it requires being much more savvy about how to make yourself be seen and heard, and how to have influence. And a lot of studies are showing that by not having that in person connection, that it's taking much longer to be able to have that kind of connectivity and influence. As you move up in the organization. More and more people are starting to go back into an office environment, go back to in person meetings with clients and are finding that they're having accelerated success by having that person to person connection that isn't remote.
Stephanie Kruse 24:40
Yeah, I mean, I think those rules have always been in place, right? That's why we have networking. That's why we have one on ones and mentorship in the workplace, right? It's about visibility. It's about people understanding and perceiving you to be deserving of that promotion or to be deserving of that next project. Door or, you know, salary increase, what have you, that hasn't changed. But I think you bring up something really interesting, the quality over quantity conundrum. You know, there was, there's also the people that could have been at work at the beginning of the day, and at the end of the day, and still might not have been that productive, right? They're just, you know, clocking it in and showing up because they think that's what their boss wanted. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're visible for their work. How do you think about either I don't want to I don't know if training is the right word, but it might be training people to think about it that way. What sort of tools? Do you see them using really effectively,
Christine Alvarez 25:44
onboarding has gotten to be the big challenge in the virtual world. And virtual has probably presented us with a whole new communication language notice still unraveling part of it, I think, is really having more space to understand who your workers are, and who you're hiring was, kind of throws a wrench into that whole mix is the whole process of AI, and, you know, applicant tracking systems and all this kind of stuff. So you're losing this personal piece, but you have to build that personal connection to help these people
Stephanie Kruse 26:19
and you mean AI in the sense of reviewing resumes,
Christine Alvarez 26:24
even more so with having AI take over certain managerial functions? Oh, okay. And that's been part of, you know, part of the language. So the number is going to be different for every company. And the question becomes those your onboarding and communication and building your skill sets with a workforce. What does that, you know, what does that say about your culture? What is your culture, and so it's having companies and businesses open up and think a little bit more personal terms, about who they are, what they are, and who they are and what they are to their employees,
Eileen Springer 26:57
and not take it from the angle of the employee themselves, in terms of what what we as coaches encourage people to do in this new workforce that they're operating in. It's about owning your career, and taking responsibility for always nurturing your network, both your internal network where you're working, and staying in touch with your external network, the biggest mistake people make is not nurturing that network until they need it. Right. And then that's, that's not the time to be nurturing your network, you want to have already built that network, and make it make your way of life, a way of being a true professional, to always be paying attention to that network. And, you know, building that internal network, it's equally important because without influence in your organization, it's very difficult to get things done, particularly in a virtual environment, where you may have never met people face to face before.
Stephanie Kruse 28:05
Yeah. And I, I wonder to how we think about it, and what you've seen relative to people who've taken a break from the workforce and are trying to reenter, what are you seeing happening there with, you know, let's call it let's let's go for women as the example. Maybe they took time off to caregiver or took a step back in their career for a bit and are starting to come back or look to come back? What are you seeing happening there? And are they butting up against, you know, some of those ageism issues that we've sometimes heard about? And I think we all agree can be very real? How are they breaking through?
Christine Alvarez 28:46
Yeah, there are women that are out there who have taken a step back from their careers. The hard part is, is that business, and the world of work is transitioning so fast that if you left as a marketer, or a nurse, or some other function, you come back in five or six years later, it's a very different world. Technology has changed, people have changed operational structures have changed. So the idea is, it still goes back to what what are your strongest skill sets? What do you like to do? And how do they fit in? One of the things I like to challenge my clients is, if you just took your skills and your knowledge, start to brainstorm ways that it could show up in other industries that are not in the industry that you're in. So you have to start to really think about where else will this serve, but also what else interests me?
Eileen Springer 29:43
I've recently worked with several women who have reentered the workforce after having been out for several years taking care of their families, most of them with advanced degrees who had really strong careers prior to stepping out. And for most of them the way back in was taking this approach a bit through the gig economy taking on some contract work, to get back in the swing of things to build up their skill set, again, to get familiar with what the what the current needs were in trends and technology, then that helped them interview better, once they started going for the jobs they really wanted. I had one particular client who had been in investment, banking her whole career, and then wound up going to lead a nonprofit, because during her timeout, she had still taken on some leadership roles as a volunteer in nonprofits. And that that was a good next step for her that she was interested in taking. There are also some returnship programs and large organizations, particularly for technical functions, such as in law, and in finance, for people that have specific skill sets, where they're still a great need. So a lot of the banks and consulting firms have these returnship programs, which had been quite successful.
Stephanie Kruse 31:14
But I do think you're right, there is a language or vernacular, an updated set of ways of describing, you know, what you're interested in? How would you when you think about, you know, who your optimal client is, I don't know if it exists, but who should be thinking about connecting with a coach?
Christine Alvarez 31:35
The people who you have to be willing to do the work. Coaching is really about moving people from one place to another. But the real work actually happens in between the sessions. So the person has to be a little bit willing to push themselves, in addition to the coach, people come to coach and come for a variety reasons. Many of it is career. So it is a matter of self reflecting. And it's like, where are your challenges? And what do you need help with, but also starting to have answers when you're asked Where do you want to go? The people who are early in career have benefited from coaching, because it helps them open up doors to see things that they haven't, I did some work at a university as a career counselor. And many of the marketing students always thought in a very linear fashion about where they would want to do marketing. But if you think if you take a step back, it's like pharma, you know, auto companies, and insurance companies all have marketing pieces. So the idea is, you know, early in career is a good transition people, also a good market for us, and then people who are actually thinking about their legacy. So it's really a matter of people who are very curious and willing to invest in themselves to figure out what is the next piece for them.
Eileen Springer 32:56
I would agree that the ideal client is the client that you're very confident you can succeed with. And that's a person that's willing to put in the work and understands that were their guide in the process, but we're not doing the work for them. But the type of support that a coach can provide to the person, for example, that switching careers are returning to the workforce, helping one uncover what those adjacent spaces are, and giving them the language to be able to present well, when they're when they're trying to sell themselves for the role that they really want. As I say, to hiring managers all the time, be careful, you're not hiring the person that interviews the bass, that doesn't necessarily make for the best worker. But helping people lean into their strengths and put their best foot forward so that they can achieve their goals. And that may be the person that's looking for a new job, but it also may be the person that's going for the promotion, or has recently been promoted to the C suite, and is now having to influence in a different way, manage more people, or present to a board of directors, that can be very daunting, and having a safe space to be able to get that kind of support, to talk about your fears. And to get the kind of guidance and encouragement that you need to be able to succeed in that new role can be very powerful.
Stephanie Kruse 34:28
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up at different levels. You know, I know that when my husband and I tuck him in, he fortunately is risen to an executive level in his career. That skill set is very different from when you start out as an associate, right? It is a whole different ball of wax to be in front of a board of directors or if you're an entrepreneur be trying to raise funds and fire in front of VCs or incubator groups. Then having a great idea or being great at spreadsheets. So I think that's really important distinction to you know, think about it as an evolution of skill. One of the things I'm curious about too, with you guys, before we kind of get to our last question is, you know, I've talked with a lot of different guests about feeling stuck. And you know, one of the things that the show, you know that one of my goals is to help people start to dismantle that feeling of I got to have it all figured out, I've got to be perfect before I even begin. I don't want to generalize that it's gender specific. But what do you see when people feel stuck? What helps them the most sort of get to that next place, in ideating, are envisioning where they want to go with our lives?
Christine Alvarez 35:49
When somebody who's stuck, you really want to take some space and break it apart? And what is the bigger challenge? What are they feeling? Is this coming through a value? Is it coming through something else, and really challenging them to think differently, that's probably the most satisfying piece for me about being a coach is having someone see something in a new way that they hadn't seen before. That little epiphany is really quite satisfying. But the idea is that when people are stuck, the way to really you have to dig it, and you just can't give us solve to it, you really have to start questioning why what how did you get here? What happened before that? So really looking at, you know, what happened in the past? What would be the ideal future, what would be the non ideal future? So it's a lot of powerful questioning to help people get unstuck.
Eileen Springer 36:42
And I think coaches can help clients get more curious, encouraging people to go through an exploration process can can be the differentiator, one conversation with someone that energizes you and motivate you can make a big difference, or gaining some insight or an introduction to something that you didn't even know existed before. All of those little micro experiences, I think, is what leads to one getting on stock.
Stephanie Kruse 37:19
Yeah, I think the curiosity piece and you know, curiosity, not judgment, either of yourself, or what you already think, you know, right, gives you the ability to grow. Yeah, those are great examples. Thank you for those. So now to our last question, this has been so great. I could like talk about this, I could totally geek out over this with you all day. But in the interest of time, what I want to talk about next is to get your thoughts on, you know, the show's name is good enough for now. When you hear that phrase, what does that evoke for you? To me?
Christine Alvarez 37:56
You just thought it? It's a pause on judgment. Right? The infamous old saying good enough for government work, it's, you know, it's like, Will you will you be will what you're doing, get the job done. You know, because I don't think there is such a thing as perfectionism. Because if there isn't, you know, to me, that's a math. And so good enough means it will last it will build you can do it. But who's to say what perfection is because I don't believe in it. So, only you can judge? What is good enough for you? Or for the situation at hand?
Stephanie Kruse 38:40
Does perfectionism exist? I love that.
Eileen Springer 38:44
And to me, it means having a willingness to feel satisfied. To celebrate the small successes, be willing to recognize them and reflect on them. And give yourself a pat on the back. And step back in, in embrace feeling satisfied for the moment.
Stephanie Kruse 39:06
Those are so amazing. Thank you both for those thoughts. I'm completely delighted every time I hear someone answer that question because no two have been the same. And I will have done almost 40 episodes as of this episode. So it's it's the best. I'm gonna go out on the street and start asking strangers so thank you both so much. Tell people where they can find you engage with you understand your work get to know about it.
Christine Alvarez 39:35
The easiest way is to go to our website at WWW.yournextnext.com. There we have our BIOS we have a lot of the articles that we've written and ways to connect with us. So if you're thinking about a coach, I'd invite you to visit the website.
Stephanie Kruse 39:53
Fantastic and I will put that in the show notes for everyone and ways to get in touch with you directly. Thank you both so much for joining me today.
Christine Alvarez 40:02
Thank you.
Stephanie Kruse 40:04
Yay. Thank you so much for joining me. Please share the show with your friends by word of mouth, send them a text and maybe leave a rating and review. It really helps people find good enough for now. Don't forget to also follow us on your favorite podcast player like Apple or Spotify. So you can get new shows automatically each time they're released. You'll find show notes a goodenoughfornowpod.com. And you can connect on Instagram @goodenoughfornowpod. See you next time.
